SDKs & comparison with the iPhone

by Al Sutton » Sat, 11 Apr 2009 15:35:50 GMT


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 ow before I start on the iPhone comparison I'm going to pre-empt the normal
"But Android is open source....." response by saying lets be honest and
admit it as it stands Android is not an open source project because the
public "open source" repository is pretty worthless in its' current state.

The last time I tried to build the master branch it failed missing some
Google internal API classes. The SDKs I've produce from the cupcake branch
seem to be considered by Google employees as pretty useless with comments
like "This is why we want to be clear it is "unofficial," because it is not
actually a working SDK" being thrown around and networking in the emulator
still being broken a week after users started reporting the showstopper
problem (And Romain did hint that Google have a fix, I read
http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/msg/41fcefc36bd16d44 as
"there is a version where this is fixed"). And as we all know you can't use
it to build the exact versions of the open source parts of either of the two
firmware versions that have shipped on the G1.

To me it seems little more than code dump which is aimed at ensuring Google
can keep saying "But it is open source and not just a Google project"

Now, in the last week I had few conversations with iPhone developers so I
could compare the Android developer experience to that of what is perceived
as our nearest competitor and they are laughing at us (seriously, when I
mentioned the G1 most of them responded by initially chuckling). The general
consensus among them was;

- Yes, you pay $99 for the iPhone dev kit, but you get "free" external
testing (i.e. at apple) and commercial quality support with many queries
being turned around in hours or a couple of days at worst. Compare that to
some of the support queries on b.android.com for basic problems things like
a Android failing to connect to wireless lans with hidden SSID
(http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1041) which, after *five
and a half months* is still marked as "New" and doesn't have a single
response from a Google employee.

- The most common cause of App Store listing rejections are things that
users would complain about anyway. This includes things like performance
characteristics, UI anomalies, and inconsistent behaviour. This is the type
of stuff that is left for users to find out on Android and only comes to
light when 1* or 2* comments are posted and even then you don't know if it's
a one off on the users device or possibly something specific to their region
(http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=2372).

- The normal amount of time from submission to app store listing is around 7
days. Some apps take months to go through the approval process, but that is
because of intellectual property concerns, concerns over offensive content,
or is because the app has to be re-reviewed a few times to meet the apples
performance and behaviour guidelines. Yes it's not as fast as Android, but
you know that once it's on the market it's of a quality where you're not
going to get bombarded with user queries about problems straight off.

- Most of the developers actually feel valued by Apple and feel that Apple
does what it can to make sure they get the tools they need to do their job
and ensure they're apps. This has been re-enforced by allowing the
developers to beta test the new



SDKs & comparison with the iPhone

by Tom Gibara » Sat, 11 Apr 2009 19:09:33 GMT


 i Al,
I think my response might best have been posted to android-discuss, but I'll
reply here anyway.

Pre-empting a debate about whether Android is open source with the argument
"...let's be honest..." isn't adequate. I don't know whether there are
established metrics for measuring a degree to which a project rates as being
"open source", but here are some of mine:

(1) Can I make use of the code and do so freely?
(2) Can I distribute the code free of onerous conditions?
(3) Can I contribute?
(4) Can I be openly critical?

By all of these metrics I regard Android as open source.

(1) I regularly access the git repository to learn how various Android
components work. I downloaded and successfully built an SDK based on cupcake
for a preview of forthcoming IMF. On a few private scratch projects, I've
copied widget code out of the android framework and tweaked it to make my
own UI components. I neither sought nor needed permission from Google to do
any of these things because the code was licensed so as to give me these
freedoms.

(2) Since almost all of the source code is licensed under the Apache License
I feel very comfortable distributing any software I derive from it since
it's an extremely permissive and well understood license. I've seen a number
of people post in this, and other groups, that the absence of some code from
the repository disqualifies Android from being open source; even that the
inability to create an installable phone image betrays a malign intent. I
don't hold with these arguments - they would carry weight if Android was
only operable on one model/brand of hardware but since
that's demonstrably not the case I'm contemptuous of them.

(3) I have to-date made one very modest contribution to the Android code
base, but intend to make more when time permits. My limited experience so
far is that the Android engineers are extremely receptive to contributions
pitched at a technical level and supportive of anyone trying to commit code.
Perhaps others have had a different experience. I do anticipate that
programmers who think they are going to sweep in and carve out whole new
areas of functionality inside the core frameworks will probably be
disappointed, but due to an inadequate understanding of how large projects
need to operate rather than by intransigent Google staff.

(4) This is an important freedom that is not necessarily guaranteed by the
preceding ones. I include a public bug reporting system as an element of
this. Android has one and there is little evidence that Google engineers
ignore the bugs filed there. It's clear that there is insufficient public
visibility of the statuses of issues, but that's not the same thing. Reading
the android related groups demonstrates that criticisms of Android,
irrespective of how well founded they may be, are freely accommodated even
though the groups are moderated by Google employees.

Given the personal observations above, I find the argument that Android is
not an open source project simply misguided. Perhaps it arises in many
instances from a lack of experience with open-source or alternatively large
scale software development. I'm not denying that there are some key
problems, especially concerning the state of the master branch.
Nevertheless, having closely observed the progress of the android project
since its first public announcement I believe that things have improved
considerably and


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SDKs & comparison with the iPhone

by Mariano Kamp » Sat, 11 Apr 2009 19:11:34 GMT


 l, I hope it's not that bad and that over time things will get better and
more open. Look at the sorry state of the Android Market. I am not being
polemic here when I say that this cannot be so bad on purpose. So there is
hope.
On the other hand, the issues of Android moving to open source and/or
winning on its own merits are much more important than it would be in the
Apple world. For Apple the iPhone is a significant revenue stream with
immediate needs and benefits. So they drive all things iPhone.

For Google on the other hand Android doesn't give them any immediate
benefits. Maybe only that they were able to force-feed Android users a dead
payment processor (Not sure how well using one's monopoly position this way
plays with not being evil btw.).
But no revenue is generated and the intention to prevent the mobile internet
to be dominated by a single party (M$, Apple?), that might shut Google out
of future revenue streams, is not an immediate threat.

It is sad, but when thinking about it only obvious, that the expectation
were much too high regarding the pull of Google's brand and deep pockets. To
me there just isn't enough alignment of the goals of Android and Google.
That might be enough to maintain an already successful solution, but ...

It would be great if things get a bit more open sourced, like you mentioned,
or another bigger player can find a business model in the Android world and
will step up as a leader with immediate needs and benefits.
I am just not sure from what direction this should come? SW vendors can't
really earn money in an OSS environment and HW vendors can't really compete
with Apple shaping both an SW and HW experience for their endusers and get
to keep their advances for themselves. And those two Android users out there
using the only phone model available are not all that willing to pay for
apps on top of paying for the HW and the phone service.

Maybe I see things to dark. Against all odds Linux became a success story.

Keep us posted on your experiences with the other platforms. I think it will
be interesting to see if at least BlackBerry will be able to create an
environment were it is possible for ISVs to earn money in a sustainable way.

On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Al Sutton <a...@funkyandroid.com> wrote:


--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~



SDKs & comparison with the iPhone

by Al Sutton » Sat, 11 Apr 2009 19:12:51 GMT


 oving to discuss...


---

* Written an Android App? - List it at http://andappstore.com/ *

======
Funky Android Limited is registered in England & Wales with the
company number 6741909. The registered head office is Kemp House,
152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK.

The views expressed in this email are those of the author and not
necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's associates, or it's
subsidiaries.





_____

From: android-developers@googlegroups.com
[mailto:android-develop...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Gibara
Sent: 11 April 2009 12:09
To: android-developers@googlegroups.com
Subject: [android-developers] Re: SDKs & comparison with the iPhone


Hi Al,

I think my response might best have been posted to android-discuss, but I'll
reply here anyway.

Pre-empting a debate about whether Android is open source with the argument
"...let's be honest..." isn't adequate. I don't know whether there are
established metrics for measuring a degree to which a project rates as being
"open source", but here are some of mine:

(1) Can I make use of the code and do so freely?
(2) Can I distribute the code free of onerous conditions?
(3) Can I contribute?
(4) Can I be openly critical?

By all of these metrics I regard Android as open source.

(1) I regularly access the git repository to learn how various Android
components work. I downloaded and successfully built an SDK based on cupcake
for a preview of forthcoming IMF. On a few private scratch projects, I've
copied widget code out of the android framework and tweaked it to make my
own UI components. I neither sought nor needed permission from Google to do
any of these things because the code was licensed so as to give me these
freedoms.

(2) Since almost all of the source code is licensed under the Apache License
I feel very comfortable distributing any software I derive from it since
it's an extremely permissive and well understood license. I've seen a number
of people post in this, and other groups, that the absence of some code from
the repository disqualifies Android from being open source; even that the
inability to create an installable phone image betrays a malign intent. I
don't hold with these arguments - they would carry weight if Android was
only operable on one model/brand of hardware but since that's demonstrably
not the case I'm contemptuous of them.

(3) I have to-date made one very modest contribution to the Android code
base, but intend to make more when time permits. My limited experience so
far is that the Android engineers are extremely receptive to contributions
pitched at a technical level and supportive of anyone trying to commit code.
Perhaps others have had a different experience. I do anticipate that
programmers who think they are going to sweep in and carve out whole new
areas of functionality inside the core frameworks will probably be
disappointed, but due to an inadequate understanding of how large projects
need to operate rather than by intransigent Google staff.

(4) This is an important freedom that is not necessarily guaranteed by the
preceding ones. I include a public bug reporting system as an element of
this. Android has one and there is little evidence that Google engineers
ignore the bugs filed there. It's clear that there is insufficient public
visibility of the statuses of issues, but that's not the same thing. Read



SDKs & comparison with the iPhone

by Pd » Sat, 11 Apr 2009 19:16:39 GMT


 f its any consolation you are not alone in this.  We have all been 
sucked in by Google. I just get the feeling we have already been spat out!

While Google continue to make billions of $$$ what they need is
additional resource to test their code, the grunt work. That is where
we come in. If anyone thinks for a minute Google care, think again!

Very sad, very sad indeed!


Pd.


Al Sutton wrote:

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SDKs & comparison with the iPhone

by Al Sutton » Sat, 11 Apr 2009 19:54:55 GMT


 om,

My metric is simple; Can I build a working system from the public repository
which represents what most users are using?, and the answer to that is
currently no.

To me there are many products being labelled Android; There are the ones
that are used on devices, there are the ports that people have made to new
platforms, and there is the public repository, and although all these are
different in their own way people seem to pick attributes from each and say
that's what Android is.

As I see things, the answers to your metrics are;

(1) You can for the Android open source project, but not for the version of
Android that's shipped on the G1, Magic, or ADP1. I will happily admit I am
wrong if someone can give me the git revision numbers from the open source
project which will build all the open source components of the "official"
updates for these platforms.

(2) Again, yes for the open source repo, but again builds from the open
source repo are not what's in use by a majority of Android users.

(3) I've contributed code to "closed source" products before after the
source code was made available to me under an NDA. I did not work for the
company at the time and I did not get paid for the contribution, so I'm not
sure it's a metric of an open source project. I've also had contributions to
projects considered as open source sit in a review tree for 6 months and
then one another developer submit the same code and it gets integrated (this
was a 1 line fix, and so the fix was *exactly* the same). Therefore I'd say
this metric possibly isn't a charactistic that identifies an open source
product

(4) I would again disagree that bugs are ignored, as I stated in my original
email there are bugs that are still marked as new after five and a half
months. This means they haven't even reached the "reviewed" stage even
though many later bugs have. I would also disagree it's a metric of an open
source product as there are numerous public criticisms of Windows, and the
developers complaining over problems submitting iPhone apps are well
publicised, and both of these are closed source projects.

I think the main point of our differences is that you see Android as one
thing, whereas I see Android as the basis for many things which are trading
off a brand, and to me that's like saying IBMs HTTPD is open source because
it has a codebase built on Apache (Thanks to Disconnect in
http://andblogs.net/2009/04/android-and-open-source/ for bringing the
IBM/Apache link up).

Al.
---

* Written an Android App? - List it at http://andappstore.com/ *

======
Funky Android Limited is registered in England & Wales with the
company number 6741909. The registered head office is Kemp House,
152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK.

The views expressed in this email are those of the author and not
necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's associates, or it's
subsidiaries.





________________________________

From: android-develop...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:android-develop...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Gibara
Sent: 11 April 2009 12:09
To: android-develop...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [android-developers] Re: SDKs & comparison with the iPhone


Hi Al,


I think my response might best have been posted to android-discuss, but I'll
reply here anyway.

Pre-empting a debate about whether Android is open source with the argument
&q



SDKs & comparison with the iPhone

by JP » Sun, 12 Apr 2009 01:37:38 GMT


 n Apr 11, 7:22 am, Tom Gibara <m...@tomgibara.com> wrote:


Back on topic. Coming from the developers forum, let me repost the
original points:

"... in the last week I had few conversations with iPhone developers
so I
could compare the Android developer experience to that of what is
perceived
as our nearest competitor and they are laughing at us (seriously, when
I
mentioned the G1 most of them responded by initially chuckling). The
general
consensus among them was;

- Yes, you pay $99 for the iPhone dev kit, but you get "free" external
testing (i.e. at apple) and commercial quality support with many
queries
being turned around in hours or a couple of days at worst. Compare
that to
some of the support queries on b.android.com for basic problems things
like
a Android failing to connect to wireless lans with hidden SSID
(http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1041) which, after
*five
and a half months* is still marked as "New" and doesn't have a single
response from a Google employee.

- The most common cause of App Store listing rejections are things
that
users would complain about anyway. This includes things like
performance
characteristics, UI anomalies, and inconsistent behaviour. This is the
type
of stuff that is left for users to find out on Android and only comes
to
light when 1* or 2* comments are posted and even then you don't know
if it's
a one off on the users device or possibly something specific to their
region
(http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=2372).

- The normal amount of time from submission to app store listing is
around 7
days. Some apps take months to go through the approval process, but
that is
because of intellectual property concerns, concerns over offensive
content,
or is because the app has to be re-reviewed a few times to meet the
apples
performance and behaviour guidelines. Yes it's not as fast as Android,
but
you know that once it's on the market it's of a quality where you're
not
going to get bombarded with user queries about problems straight off.

- Most of the developers actually feel valued by Apple and feel that
Apple
does what it can to make sure they get the tools they need to do their
job
and ensure they're apps. This has been re-enforced by allowing the
developers to beta test the new firmware and develop against it.

Personally, it's made me shell out $99 for an iPhone SDK, dust off my
Nokia
N81, and spend $75 on eBay on a Blackberry so I can explore the
alternatives. "


First the positive: Even with iPhone SDK 3.0 it appears to me I
couldn't do what I got running on Android. Both maps and background
processes still seem to be not supported well over there. So no, the
grass is not greener on the iPhone for me personally as these two
elements are supported only in an half-assed way through map embedding
and a push mechanism. I'd take the Pepsi challenge any day.

Now going on to my rant though. <ON> I will in particular hook into
the being "valued" side of things.
As the other poster mentioned we got suckered in by the big name but I
agree with anybody who says they're disappointed with how Google are
carrying themselves. There isn't even acknowledgment that they don't
have the formula right - am I alone in this? I was really enthused
early on (back when there wasn't an iPhone SDK in sight) but now feel
pretty deflated. I'll spend a coupl



SDKs & comparison with the iPhone

by Jon Colverson » Sun, 12 Apr 2009 01:47:35 GMT


 n Apr 11, 12:54pm, "Al Sutton" <a...@funkyandroid.com> wrote:

I agree that this is important. It reminds me of a great article by
Jamie Zawinski of Netscape fame, talking about his disappointments
with the original open-sourcing of Netscape:

---
People only really contribute when they get something out of it. When
someone is first beginning to contribute, they especially need to see
some kind of payback, some kind of positive reinforcement, right away.
For example, if someone were running a web browser, then stopped,
added a simple new command to the source, recompiled, and had that
same web browser plus their addition, they would be motivated to do
this again, and possibly to tackle even larger projects.

We never got there. We never distributed the source code to a working
web browser, more importantly, to the web browser that people were
actually using. We didn't release the source code to the most-previous-
release of Netscape Navigator: instead, we released what we had at the
time, which had a number of incomplete features, and lots and lots of
bugs. And of course we weren't able to release any Java or crypto code
at all.

What we released was a large pile of interesting code, but it didn't
much resemble something you could actually use.
---
from http://www.jwz.org/gruntle/nomo.html

Personally, I haven't played with the Android source much, because (as
I understand it) I won't be able to build an image that would be
suitable for daily use on my phone. "Suitable" for me means stable,
compatible with the T-Mobile releases (for the sake of app testing),
and complete with the Google apps.

Two things that I would like Google to do:
Be more precise about tagging API version releases: From what I've
read, the release-1.0 tag is sorta mostly similar to the code that was
shipped on production G1s, but not exactly. I can't find a release-1.1
tag. What should I build if I want to make an image that I can
confidently develop apps on that could be released today? I dunno.

Release apks of the Google apps that can be installed for personal
use. I remember a Googler mentioning that this would be a possibility
a while ago, but I would encourage the priority of this to be bumped
up a few notches.


There is another problem with Android as an open-source project, but I
appreciate that Google's hands are more tied in this respect: I was
surprised when I got my G1 that the bootloader was locked down to only
accept signed updates. Although there are workarounds on the G1 thanks
to that handy console bug, I think that the locking down of Android
devices is very unfortunate for the platform. To use Jamie Zawinski's
example, these days if Joe Random Programmer is using Firefox one day
and thinks of a feature he'd like to add, he can pull down the source,
edit, build, and have it up and running as his main browser the same
day. If Joe Random Programmer is using his Android phone and thinks of
a feature that he'd like to add, he had better have had the
forethought to buy an ADP1, or he's out of luck. If Joe lives in a
place like the US or the UK where it is customary to get subsidized
phones with service plans, he's unlikely to have considered laying
down $400 for an ADP1 on the off-chance that he might want to hack on
it one day. Besides, maybe he prefers that other sexy new Android
phone from $manufacturer.

I would ask Google to encourage the manufacturers and



SDKs & comparison with the iPhone

by mike . kedl » Sun, 12 Apr 2009 08:28:00 GMT


  know its not very helpful to say "me to". But that sounds spot on for me.  
I want to contribute more but I can't download/build/test the system so I
am just waiting until we get to that point.

Does anyone know how we can let the right people at Google know that is the
kind of problem that needs to be addressed ASAP?

I follow the hacking over at xda, and a few of them are really trying hard
to improve things from the partial daily builds, existing images, and
leaked images. But it is obviously slow going since it is such a
complicated system. If they/we had source to actually build from that was a
complete system I can only imagine what great things they/we could do.


On Apr 11, 2009 1:46pm, Jon Colverson <jjc1...@gmail.com> wrote:



































































































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SDKs & comparison with the iPhone

by Ralf » Sun, 12 Apr 2009 10:04:26 GMT


 n Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 12:34 AM, Al Sutton <a...@funkyandroid.com> wrote:

You're jumping to conclusions here, and I'd like to be quite
interested in seeing the source of your quote as I guess that's your
interpretation, not an actual quote.

The current cupcake SDK is out there for anybody who wants to use it.
I even contributed clear instructions on how to build it. It is not
deemed final and won't be till it is officially stated as such. And
even when the cupcake SDK will be deemed final, the official one will
be the one distributed on android.com -- whatever you build is not
official.

The rest seems mere trolling and out of place on the developer forum
so I'll skip it.
R/


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SDKs & comparison with the iPhone

by Al Sutton » Sun, 12 Apr 2009 14:00:56 GMT


 uote sources;

Open source builds labelled as "unofficial" SDK -
http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/msg/bb3374b419115644

Source of original quote on "unofficial" SDKs not working -
http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/msg/c408eb22c1722261

The rest of the discussion has moved to -discuss several hours before your
email, so please continue any discussion about it over there.

Al.


---

* Written an Android App? - List it at http://andappstore.com/ *

======
Funky Android Limited is registered in England & Wales with the
company number 6741909. The registered head office is Kemp House,
152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK.

The views expressed in this email are those of the author and not
necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's associates, or it's
subsidiaries.


-----Original Message-----
From: android-developers@googlegroups.com
[mailto:android-develop...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ralf
Sent: 12 April 2009 03:04
To: android-developers@googlegroups.com
Subject: [android-developers] Re: SDKs & comparison with the iPhone


On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 12:34 AM, Al Sutton <a...@funkyandroid.com> wrote:
current state.

You're jumping to conclusions here, and I'd like to be quite interested in
seeing the source of your quote as I guess that's your interpretation, not
an actual quote.

The current cupcake SDK is out there for anybody who wants to use it.
I even contributed clear instructions on how to build it. It is not deemed
final and won't be till it is officially stated as such. And even when the
cupcake SDK will be deemed final, the official one will be the one
distributed on android.com -- whatever you build is not official.

The rest seems mere trolling and out of place on the developer forum so I'll
skip it.
R/

project"
(http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=2372).
bombarded with user queries about problems straight off.
it.




--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~



SDKs & comparison with the iPhone

by Jay-andro » Mon, 13 Apr 2009 01:42:24 GMT


 Going back to the original topic of comparing with iPhone, here's how
I summarize my experience with both platforms so far:

1. Android is a more powerful platform with greater flexibility in
what it allows developers to do, both in terms of applications
features, and development process & tools available.
2. In terms of potential for the future, Android holds forth much more
promise by being ported to a variety of types of devices, and getting
contributions from companies & individuals coming at it from different
perspectives, whereas iPhone will go only where one company wants it
to go. The true openness of Android may be debatable (as evidenced in
this thread), but the true closed nature of iPhone is undebatable, as
is the RELATIVE openness of Android compared with any other mobile OS.
3. Perhaps as a result of this greater openness in the SDK, Android
pays a price in terms of poorer performance and stability (when
multiple apps are running amok with their background proceses on a
phone) and slower concerted movement and progress in any one
direction,.
4. Apple exercises extremely tight-fisted control over the developer's
pipeline in terms of provisioning profiles, phone ID's, certificates,
itunes to phone restrictions, and such. After tasting the openness and
free-wheeling nature of developing on Android, the iphone dev process
feels very stifling. Add to that Apple's imposition of a gag order on
discussion of its SDK's limitations, and the whole experience leaves a
bad taste in the mouth.
5. However, Apple's approval process and SDK restrictions actually
result in an iphone user experience that is MUCH more satisfying
within each app, and a MUCH more happy ownership experience for the
iPhone owner, while restricting the range of apps that can be built;
whereas the lack of supervision, marketing and support on the Android
front makes it more akin to the wild west both for users and
developers.

So, in my experience, it is a very mixed bag, with no clear winner.
One platform is more mature, far more user-friendly, larger in volume
with greater immediate promise of $$, but discouragingly restrictive
on developers. The other platform is (relatively) a joy to develop on,
has great potential, but also very frustrating for the lack of support
and direction provided. So while this debate can rage on ad infinitum,
in practical terms as a developer committed to mobile app development,
I see no alternative but to have a leg on each side of the fence,
while hoping that Android by year end will be in a much more happy
place in terms of volume and streamlined direction from Google.

PS: As a point of comparison, Blackberry I feel is somewhere in
between in the App World JDE development model. The API's are more
capable that iPhone's but less than Android's, their support is
excellent & better than the other two, their rules far less
restrictive than Apple's; but I am finding a lot of vagaries and bugs
on their latest device, the Storm. I'd be very curious to hear how the
new Palm OS stacks up against these incumbents.

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SDKs & comparison with the iPhone

by Al Sutton » Mon, 13 Apr 2009 02:28:39 GMT


 eading you post made me concerned in regard to an aspect that had always 
been at the back of my mind;

If you look at Games consoles, PCs', etc., the current winners are the ones
where one company controls the direction of the OS. Whether it be Xbox -v-
PS3 -v- Wii, or the PC -v- Mac battle, all the big contenders are "single
company" OSes.

Even where there has been a change of leadership which takes place over more
than a couple of years the old and the new winners are single company OSes
(e.g. Solaris being replaces by Windows in the server arena).

Hmmmm...

Al.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay-andro" <jayan...@gmail.com>
To: "Android Discuss" <android-discuss@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 6:42 PM
Subject: [android-discuss] Re: SDKs & comparison with the iPhone




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SDKs & comparison with the iPhone

by Dianne Hackborn » Mon, 13 Apr 2009 11:39:39 GMT


 hich are exactly what Ralf is saying.  You can build an SDK out of some
random change # of the tree, and we are going to make it clear to people
that it is not official, because:

(1) We don't know what was done to build it, and thus what issues it may
have (such as networking being broken, it not being provisioned, etc).
(2) We don't know the state of the code at whatever place it was built from,
and thus don't want to leave people with the impression that this SDK can
actually be taken of an accurately reflection of the ultimate real SDK.

As an example of the latter, I spent a couple days last week doing a bunch
of cleanup of Cupcake, such as hiding new APIs that shouldn't be exposed in
the SDK, and exposing APIs that shouldn't be hidden any more. So people
can't count on the actual APIs they get in a random build of the SDK to
actually accurately reflect what will be the final SDK, and that doesn't
even get in to the more subtle issues of changes to the code.

On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 11:00 PM, Al Sutton <a...@funkyandroid.com> wrote:



--
Dianne Hackborn
Android framework engineer
hack...@android.com

Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to
provide private support, and so won't reply to such e-mails. All such
questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can see and
answer them.

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SDKs & comparison with the iPhone

by Ralf » Mon, 13 Apr 2009 13:34:41 GMT


 n Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Al Sutton <a...@funkyandroid.com> wrote:

What you're saying is that one company that has the capacity to focus
on a good strategy can complete it and create a good product. Sure,
but there are many counter examples of big companies creating bad
products, and there are also numerous examples of small companies
being very successful at taking on larger companies (e.g. Google with
search or Macromedia with Flash back in 2004.) But in any case, the
point is not that a company be "big" but that it has a directed focus.
That's true of open source projects with a central leadership, e.g.
Python and its Dictator-for-life. Open source projects built using a
bazaar approach without a central mind are just too scattered to be an
efficient development model and hobby on-the-side development can only
provide so much. It's never quite black-and-white so there might be
counter-examples to that last point too.

Switching subject, I noted a trend in several posts: developments made
being closed doors and only made available once finished and polished
are bad thing because it's not developed in the "open source" spirit;
however development made public before completion is not good because
it's not final and stable. Sorry but you can't have it both ways.

Open source is a business model, not a development model.

R/



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