manipulating markets popularity! - why should i develop app for android

by AE » Sat, 07 Mar 2009 10:53:22 GMT


Sponsored Links
 i,

It is my understanding that the "popularity index" uses several
parameters to such as rating, comments (not directly but indirectly),
number of downloads, active install, total install, installs from
regular users, install from dev phones, age of the app, number of
phone sales in a region, etc,etc -- there is probably 500 elements
that are in the works! And rightfully so Google doesn't want folks to
game the system.

Now what I like to stress here is the following -- the 3 key element
that is presented to users prior to download is number of downloads,
rating, comments. No matter how much we argue at the end of day -- the
users makes his/her decision "somewhat" based on the above 3
parameters. Interestingly all of the above parameters can be
manipulated by doing the following.

a. Download the app - rank and comment
b. Reset your phone - Create new user
c. Repeat A

And if you get say 5 college kid doing the above.. bingo you can
always make sure that visible 3 comments are clean and positive --
you can also use those comments as a megaphone to tell the users --
what more can your app do -- beside the 325 char description , you
keep your rating stable at 4.7/4.6 (so you don't look to greedy) and
your number of downloads are increasing. Not only that while you are
at it you might as well go ahead and make lower rating and ugly
comments to competitors app -- and you make sure you uninstall
competitors app, where as you don't uninstall your app -- you just hit
for the "hard reset" -- because you send the signal -- that the phone
might be off -- rinse and repeat!!! Yes very true this will not
increase your popularity but slowly and surely by doing so you can
only go up cos if all of the ranking elements produce "X" and the
above 3 elements say produce "Y" -- no matter how insignificant these
3 parameter is -- you are on the positive -- never the less you have a
propaganda megaphone to the users who download your apps. In every
damn category all the top 20 - 30 apps stays the same, I have not seen
them moving out of that space !!

I am complete disgusted by the above, I worked hard to develop my app,
I used the SDK so I can take advantage of all the phone features and I
am honest and what it gets me -- nada! So why should I develop app --
what incentive does it provide me if I don't have the money power to
buy my friends 5-10 G1 to game the system!!

I have couple of ideas to the above problem - and I am sure there are
many here who has even better idea then i list below --

1. Rating from the "new" users i.e. created on the fly users -- should
be separated from the users who are verified i.e. been using google
for a while and have a history, so I propose 2 ratings rather then one
- why - it should be transparent to the end consumer (No propaganda
megaphone) -- how you use to evaluate popularity -- not my business
and its googles secret.

2. Comments should have added "star" or colors to identify also the
user has no history with google i.e. Amazon's "REAL NAME". Again
transparent to end consumer

Yes, I do want to have "real users comments" and their "ratings" and
show the world "total downloads" -- it just helps me improve my app.
But we need a fair playing field that's my request. I am sure many of
you know the above -- at least its a open secret! Now everyone can



manipulating markets popularity! - why should i develop app for android

by Justin Allen Jaynes » Sat, 07 Mar 2009 11:45:15 GMT


 hile any interest in Android is good, this is a developer forum only.

Use this forum if:

"You're now an experienced Android application developer. You've grasped
the basics of Android app development, you're comfortable using the SDK,
now you want to move to advanced topics. Get help here with
troubleshooting applications, advice on implementation, and strategies
for improving your application's performance and user experience.
--Google Groups Description

his is the not the right place to discuss user issues (use
android-discuss for that) or beginner questions with the Android SDK
(use android-beginners for that)." --Google Groups Description

If you were to post topics such as this to the android-discuss group,
your relevant and useful dialog there would encourage others to
participate in that forum. Separating the discussions by topic into two
different forums improves the dialog in both forums, does it not? Please
consider posting to the proper forum.

For complete information see:
http://developer.android.com/community

AE wrote:


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manipulating markets popularity! - why should i develop app for android

by Al Sutton » Sat, 07 Mar 2009 15:39:46 GMT


 ave you confirmed yourself on a G1 that after multiple 'phone resets 
and comments/ratings they all stay in the market for more than 48 hours?

I'd be surprised if there wasn't a filtering mechanism which looked for
multiple comments/ratings from the same 'phone which ran (possibly as a
daily batch job).

Al.

AE wrote:


--

* Written an Android App? - List it at http://andappstore.com/ *

======
Funky Android Limited is registered in England & Wales with the
company number 6741909. The registered head office is Kemp House,
152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK.

The views expressed in this email are those of the author and not
necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's associates, or it's
subsidiaries.


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manipulating markets popularity! - why should i develop app for android

by AE » Sat, 07 Mar 2009 18:00:41 GMT


 n Mar 7, 9:07am, Mariano Kamp <mariano.k...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes I have done it and to see if it really true and it works.


No it stays.


Also to add for everyone here. If I had an evil vision :D I wouldn't
be telling what I have found it in open public :D Furthermore not even
come up with suggestion to solve the issue. Also the reason for
raising the issue here is -- if all the app developer start doing it
bingo we will have a serious credibility crisis for the android
market! and thus Google must solve this as soon as possible. It really
have the potential to destroy the android eco-system.

Regards
AE

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manipulating markets popularity! - why should i develop app for android

by strazzere » Sun, 08 Mar 2009 02:58:42 GMT


 Your interaction with the market is also logged with your android id
-- which also seems to be linked to a gmail account you use on that
device.

So I'm assuming this could be tracked - and if google wanted to, they
could see. Hmmm 150+ users with the same android id? All commenting
and install the same application?






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manipulating markets popularity! - why should i develop app for android

by Dave Sparks » Sun, 08 Mar 2009 09:05:43 GMT


 Filing a bug is the way to get things fixed. Most Google Android
engineers do not read this list. They do respond to bug reports
though.





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manipulating markets popularity! - why should i develop app for android

by AE » Mon, 09 Mar 2009 15:15:23 GMT


 s per instructions moving the topic from android developer to android
discuss.

Thanks


=====
Hi,

It is my understanding that the "popularity index" uses several
parameters to such as rating, comments (not directly but indirectly),
number of downloads, active install, total install, installs from
regular users, install from dev phones, age of the app, number of
phone sales in a region, etc,etc -- there is probably 500 elements
that are in the works! And rightfully so Google doesn't want folks to
game the system.

Now what I like to stress here is the following -- the 3 key element
that is presented to users prior to download is number of downloads,
rating, comments. No matter how much we argue at the end of day -- the
users makes his/her decision "somewhat" based on the above 3
parameters. Interestingly all of the above parameters can be
manipulated by doing the following.

a. Download the app - rank and comment
b. Reset your phone - Create new user
c. Repeat A

And if you get say 5 college kid doing the above.. bingo you can
always make sure that visible 3 comments are clean and positive --
you can also use those comments as a megaphone to tell the users --
what more can your app do -- beside the 325 char description , you
keep your rating stable at 4.7/4.6 (so you don't look to greedy) and
your number of downloads are increasing. Not only that while you are
at it you might as well go ahead and make lower rating and ugly
comments to competitors app -- and you make sure you uninstall
competitors app, where as you don't uninstall your app -- you just hit
for the "hard reset" -- because you send the signal -- that the phone
might be off -- rinse and repeat!!! Yes very true this will not
increase your popularity but slowly and surely by doing so you can
only go up cos if all of the ranking elements produce "X" and the
above 3 elements say produce "Y" -- no matter how insignificant these
3 parameter is -- you are on the positive -- never the less you have a
propaganda megaphone to the users who download your apps. In every
damn category all the top 20 - 30 apps stays the same, I have not seen
them moving out of that space !!

I am complete disgusted by the above, I worked hard to develop my app,
I used the SDK so I can take advantage of all the phone features and I
am honest and what it gets me -- nada! So why should I develop app --
what incentive does it provide me if I don't have the money power to
buy my friends 5-10 G1 to game the system!!

I have couple of ideas to the above problem - and I am sure there are
many here who has even better idea then i list below --

1. Rating from the "new" users i.e. created on the fly users -- should
be separated from the users who are verified i.e. been using google
for a while and have a history, so I propose 2 ratings rather then one
- why - it should be transparent to the end consumer (No propaganda
megaphone) -- how you use to evaluate popularity -- not my business
and its googles secret.

2. Comments should have added "star" or colors to identify also the
user has no history with google i.e. Amazon's "REAL NAME". Again
transparent to end consumer

Yes, I do want to have "real users comments" and their "ratings" and
show the world "total downloads" -- it just helps me improve my app.
But we need a fair playing field t



manipulating markets popularity! - why should i develop app for android

by strazzere » Sat, 14 Mar 2009 06:48:59 GMT


 It appears google does monitor and can/will disable accounts.

For example - mine has been disabled. Why? No idea but I've gotten it
confirmed by google support.

They said it was disabled due to "high volume and suspicious traffic"
- with not email notification or anything. Just turned off - and no
reply on how to get it turned back on.






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