Selling outside the Android Market--> Use Google Checkout to sell direct from website??? SlideMe.Org??

by Shane Isbell » Fri, 16 Apr 2010 11:39:44 GMT


Sponsored Links
 


A good place to start is by contacting developers of the more popular paid
apps and see what their experiences are:

https://slideme.org/user/moussam (WiFi)
https://slideme.org/user/darkimar (SpeedForge)
 http://koxx3.wordpress.com/  (widgets)

Honestly, I don't know the situation is here, good or bad; but I did see
some angry posts on slideme forums (before they were deleted) from some devs
that weren't happy about trying to get payments. Maybe it was resolved for
some of them... In the case of Koxx, apparently it wasn't. Either way, I'd
be interested to hear what your findings are.


>



Selling outside the Android Market--> Use Google Checkout to sell direct from website??? SlideMe.Org??

by George | SlideME » Fri, 16 Apr 2010 19:13:27 GMT


 Martin,

Your ticket reference is still open but as stated you need to conform to
issuing a proper invoice based on the report we will issue you and not just
a copy and paste in some document of some transactions as you choose to do
so.  There is a formal format you need to follow so such an invoice can be
acceptable and a minimum  - and you have not received this minimum.

If the developer community prefers for us to remit payout below the $100
minimum, we could come up with a plan to accommodate. Maybe we could remit
pre-payments as deposits, and then await for invoices from developers. Will
need to confirm this first.

The reason, we are requiring invoices from developers, is since SlideME is
invoicing end users and applying sales taxes where applicable, such as VAT
etc, we also need to receive invoices of such expense costs. Otherwise we
will be taxed on the whole amount of the sale as being profit. Thus, we wont
be able to provide such a high payout to developers.  Hope this normal
business practice is understood by most developers here.  Similarly, you are
expected to invoice your end users from the other stores you use to obey
regulations and apply sales taxes and remit such collected sales taxes to
each local authority. This is where SlideME handles all these complexities
for developers.


In terns of other issues posted in this thread, one needs to keep in mind
when these problems occurred and why. It's very easy for one to post some
negative comments especially when they were in fault and using them against
us today.

Will make sure we consult and update you all to what extent we can reveal
such information without breaching any agreements we have in place, that
will be valuable to developers overall.

Additionally, will come up with some variant models to initiate for
discussions to satisfy any developers concerns. The SlideME discussion
forums will be the place for this.

George | SlideME








>


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Selling outside the Android Market--> Use Google Checkout to sell direct from website??? SlideMe.Org??

by Shane Isbell » Sat, 17 Apr 2010 07:51:41 GMT


 


Sorry to hear that. Sounds as though SlideME gave you the run-around and
then lied about making good on the payment; but honestly, it doesn't
surprise me. You can try AndAppStore, they appear to have a simpler system
with some way to verify the accuracy of the reported sales.

Shane

--



Selling outside the Android Market--> Use Google Checkout to sell direct from website??? SlideMe.Org??

by Shane Isbell » Sun, 18 Apr 2010 06:10:34 GMT


 Hi Martin,

SlideME LLC is a Washington State based company so you have some avenues you
can pursue. It appears you've tried to directly resolve the issue with
SlideME but have been unsuccessful.  The Better Business Bureau can assist
you in getting such issues resolved.

https://odr.bbb.org/odrweb/public/cibrbusiness.aspx?e=4661378&id=0927e2ab-0046-4101-9482-3ef0436b177c&site=114

For some reason, the BBB is still listing me as the principal contact for
SlideME, so you do choose to report the issue, let them know that the
current contact is '*George Christopoulos'  *SlideME's phone number is not
listed on the BBB site, so it can be found here:  http://slideme.org/contact 

Hope this helps,
Shane




>



Selling outside the Android Market--> Use Google Checkout to sell direct from website??? SlideMe.Org??

by George | SlideME » Sun, 18 Apr 2010 10:58:14 GMT


 hane,

You are not aware in any way of the conversation between Martin and SlideME
(since you were not with SlideME) or maybe where Martin missed what he
actually needed to do that was clear in the first email to him, that he
unfortunately did not follow. I am sure your interests since you departed
SlideME is to damage SlideME's image as best you can for whatever personal
reasons you may have.

You also failed to mention for the three developers you posted that had
problems receiving a payout, that they were in contact with you during that
time and you failed to respond in many emails from them. Fortunately I had
means to keep in contact and remitted payouts to them from accounts you did
not control. Many support issues also had to be resolved by phone contact
since you lacked to follow up. So I would appreciate to not use your wrong
doings whilst at SlideME against what SlideME is building today with great
success.

Anyway, thanks for pointing out the BBB, as it needs to be fixed and handy
for developers to know as they venture into the business world of who to
trust and not to trust. Don't know why you pointed it out though, when
SlideME's interest is to grow and support developers at best we can with our
resources. It would not make sense for what we are pursuing if we did wrong
against developers.

Shane you may also want to check your Mikandi terms against
http://www.copyscape.com, as it appears to be a clone of Android's Market.
Guess, you shouldn't put your new partners in such a responsible state.



re: Martin follow up issue.

Helped Martin format his invoice and what he needs to include:

Invoice to: SlideME LLC (that he missed)
Address: companies address (also that he missed)
Invoice #:
....

A simple explanation of what should be included in an invoice can be found
here: http://www.ir35calc.co.uk/how_to_prepare_an_invoice.aspx


We have helped Martin format his invoice as we have helped many other
developers, but as anyone can understand, we need to conduct business a
certain way and we are not able to take all developers by the hand if they
do not submit as we require such paperwork. I am sure many other developers
are aware of how much more complex applications are for other stores,
including Apple's AppStore, RIM's AppWorld, or even MS WinMo's Marketplace
and doubt they will put in the effort as I have on a personal level to
assist them, with our limited resources.

I am more than happy for Martin to confirm if such details were mentioned to
him in the initial lengthy explanatory email to him, and additionally invite
even more developers to have their say.

Wish to also say thank you to Paul for uploading his application to SlideME,
considering the negativity of this thread from an ex-partner. I am sure Paul
and many others will be well looked after as best as we can and have their
say one day.

Thanks,
George



Hi Martin,
>>



Selling outside the Android Market--> Use Google Checkout to sell direct from website??? SlideMe.Org??

by Shane Isbell » Sun, 18 Apr 2010 11:46:09 GMT


 n Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 7:57 PM, George | SlideME
<george.slid...@gmail.com>wrote:

Ad hominem's are a sign of a weak argument. I'm keeping all my points on
target. If you are paying out to developers then you should be fine and
dandy. As I clearly stated, I don't know the general situation but what
developers like Martin and Koxx are saying is that SlideME hasn't in their
case. You say you are now dealing with it. Well great!

You aren't sure of anything, at least not where it touches reality. My
personal reasons are not to damage SlideME's image but to keep SlideME
honest with the developer community.


I don't think you even want to go there. I'm keeping everything confidential
and I take that very seriously. Apparently, you aren't. So don't force me to
reveal such matters to defend myself (like in regards to what happened to
our mail-servers, personal e-mail accounts, and domain names last
October/November), just correct your distortions of what went on internally.



I pointed it out because some developers are saying SlideME is ignoring
their e-mails and not fulfilling promises of payment. Any active member of
the community would likely do the same. I'm not sure how it is in Greece,
but in the US agencies like the BBB help resolve issues between customers
and business in a professional way, they aren't just a reporting agency.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with customers using them as a mediator
when they can't get resolution (even with honest companies).



>>>



Selling outside the Android Market--> Use Google Checkout to sell direct from website??? SlideMe.Org??

by Shane Isbell » Sun, 18 Apr 2010 15:04:54 GMT


 On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 7:57 PM, George | SlideME



I'd prefer if Paul could have his say right now. Paul, does this mean you
investigation turned up positive results for dev payments from SlideME?

According to a post by Koxx on androidforums (on April 3, 2010), payment
from SlideME was still in progress. George said SlideME already paid him.
What gives? Something really doesn't add up now.

Thanks,
Shane

--



Selling outside the Android Market--> Use Google Checkout to sell direct from website??? SlideMe.Org??

by Shane Isbell » Mon, 19 Apr 2010 00:54:50 GMT


 



This question is really simple, does SlideME handle it's obligation of
paying out developers? SlideME says that it does. This is simple to verify.
I've e-mailed Koxx(Francois) so I hope to have a response regarding this
soon. I'll also e-mail out to other developers as well and will report back
to this group, hopefully within the next week or two, so we can put this
issue to rest one way or another.

Shane

--



Selling outside the Android Market--> Use Google Checkout to sell direct from website??? SlideMe.Org??

by Shane Isbell » Mon, 19 Apr 2010 06:21:42 GMT


 Cool, at least something is coming out of SlideME.

George,

I have a general policy of not attacking people personally, but in this
case, I'll make an exception because I think it is warranted. You are a
dishonest individual. You came on this list and publicly accused me of being
the reason developers did not get paid. And yet, it took 5 months after I
left SlideME for you to resolve and pay a simple invoice. Yet you gave a
completely (dishonest) impression on this list that it was my fault. You
also blamed your recently botched rollout of SAM on me (4 months after I
left). In addition, you were dishonest in regards to your replies to Martin
on this list.

SlideME needs to take responsibility for its actions. Stop pointing fingers
to others. Stop spinning things. Just cleanup the payout mess. Developers
are saying it's not working for them and is likely the cause of all these
angry posts from developers. Deleting these posts from SlideME forums raises
a lot of eyebrows and was no small factor in why I brought these issues
forward.

And for god's sake, stop blaming me for all SlideME's problems. I left 5
months ago.

Shane




>



Selling outside the Android Market--> Use Google Checkout to sell direct from website??? SlideMe.Org??

by George | SlideME » Mon, 19 Apr 2010 20:02:38 GMT


 hane,

Seems you received just enough information from Francois to put blame and
accuse me and SlideME for being dishonest publicly. I am afraid I have to
disappoint you and provide the communication transcripts, so the members on
this list can judge for themselves if we are dishonest or what kind of a
person you are with words to mash it all up in your favor.

-
I have prepared a transcript of the communication with Francois (koxx).

21 Oct 2009: Sends email to Shane and Shane confirms: "Just send me an
invoice with the time period, contact info, method of payment, amount and
then I'll take care of it."
(this did not happen)

8th Nov 2009: Sends invoice within email as text and not as an invoices
attachment & signed as required
9th Nov 2009 : Thanks me for his payout executed from my personal account.

Jan 28th, 2010: After asking if invoices were sent, confirms "No, there was
no 'true' invoice in 2009. Just this" (an informal text in email)

Jan 28th, 2010: Confirm that we issued a payout without a proper invoice
from developer and that we were in error for doing so, and we needed a
proper invoice.

Feb 2, 2010: Issued report, again.

March 28th, 2010: Followed up with developer on status and why he decided to
unpublish as customers wanted an upgrade and asked "Was due to any reason
when previous partner 'Shane' did not remit payment to you on time?
Answer: Mar 28, 2010: Confirms, and claims he forgot to issue invoice to us.

March 29th, 2010: We issued up to date reports again

April 4th, 2010: Assisted personally developer to prepare invoices since
english is not his native language and was finding it difficult to prepare
such invoices.

April 6th, 2010: Received for the 1st time proper invoices for first payout
and new second invoice.

April 8th, 2010: Remittance sent for last invoice

Assumed developer was happy now, but again not enough of my help was enough
to keep him as a publisher on SlideME. Offered developer to forward his
email address to users of his application that wanted an upgrade and did so
as per their request.
-


Shane, one request. You need to retract now in public any such accusations
that I and SlideME are operating a dishonest operation. I would agree you
could make such accusations if you were a judge and have a clear picture
from both sides. Nothing gives you the right in public without knowing both
sides of the story to make such strong accusations that could be detrimental
to SlideME.

re: Martin's case, Martin missed reading the requirements documented clearly
in the 1st email to him as explained earlier in this thread and he issued
what was definitely not an invoice that we had to ignore. A human error on
his behalf, does not make us dishonest. I will take blame, by not following
up with him and mentioning that we could not accept this invoice, that I did
not do.

We have gone out of our way to assist these developers and it seems
developers that are demanding, or for some reason do not like the way we
conduct business tend to publicly post negative comments for their own
reasons. Unfortunately, we can only stretch our hand out so much to assist
them, and still we find they take a bite at it.

George















On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 1:21 AM, Shane Isbell <shane.isb...@gmail.com>wrote:

>>



Selling outside the Android Market--> Use Google Checkout to sell direct from website??? SlideMe.Org??

by Shane Isbell » Mon, 19 Apr 2010 23:44:55 GMT


 On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 5:02 AM, George | SlideME



I never said SlideME was dishonest. I said you, as an individual, are
dishonest and I gave the reasons. Paul comes forward and asks if SlideME is
good at paying people. I say I've seen developer complaints and invite other
developers to give their experiences. Martin comes forward, so does Francois
and we find the reason: the invoice process hard to understand. Likely, if
you had let such discussions grow on your own forums, you would have found
this out.

But rather than taking responsibility for a broken payout process, you keep
pointing the finger to other members of the community. This is dishonest.

Just identify the problem and fix it! In fact, if you approach the android
developer community on how to improve the payout process, I'm sure they will
jump in and give valuable suggestions.  But if you try to hide things, point
fingers and post bizarre e-mails, well you will get nothing.

Shane

--



Selling outside the Android Market--> Use Google Checkout to sell direct from website??? SlideMe.Org??

by Shane Isbell » Tue, 20 Apr 2010 00:05:14 GMT


 I'll be the first one to give out a suggestion: generate the invoice
automatically into a pdf from the SlideME portal. That way you can be sure
it is right. Doing manual copying and pasting of transactions seems to be a
big hurdle here.








-- 
Shane Isbell (Founder of ZappMarket)
 http://twitter.com/sisbell 
 http://twitter.com/zappstore 
 http://zappmarket.com 

--



Selling outside the Android Market--> Use Google Checkout to sell direct from website??? SlideMe.Org??

by Shane Isbell » Fri, 23 Apr 2010 01:40:57 GMT


 It's also tough to find the important terms for  SlideME fees in one place.
Have a section that outlines major points with a link for detailed
information would help.

The important points that required some digging for me are:

1) SlideME charges a $30 remittance fee to the developer. This is difficult
to find at the bottom on the payouts page.
2) SlideME charges the developer for transactions of failed installs that
don't result in the sales. The fee's aren't specified and this information
is very easily missed in a FAQ.
3) 0.50 charge to developer for refunds of applications

So something in clear language like: 5% + 0.5 transaction plus the following
(3) fees...would help clear up future misunderstandings.

Most developers tipping over the $100 mark are going to be expecting 90
something dollars. After remittance fees, sales taxes, refunds and failed
transaction fees, it's certainly going to be much less than the Android
Market and they would feel cheated if they missed such important
information.

Being clear and upfront is critical to maintaining community trust.




>



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