Att: Android engineers

by Stoyan Damov » Tue, 10 Mar 2009 21:45:21 GMT


Sponsored Links
 Hi Android engineers,

It's been weeks since we, developers, and many users, started ranting
about the bugs in the Android Market application, namely:

1. Hanging downloads
2. Hanging installs
3. The DREADED "Force Close" after an application update.

Many of us have received low ratings (especially 1 star ratings)
because of the aforementioned issues.
I took the time to review more than 100 applications, all in different
categories, and most of them sacrificed some of the RIDICULOUS 325
characters[1] description in explaining to users that 1, 2, and 3 are
actually not their fault but yours (Google's), and setting up websites
for alternative downloads.

All of the problems above are intermittent and are thus hard to
reproduce and we understand that.
What we don't understand is how much more will we have to listen to
the sound of silence.
Is there an Android engineer, man enough (or woman enough) to stand up
and say *anything* about these issues, whether they are acknowledged,
or being reviewed, or someone is working on them, or whether and when
there's a planned deadline on fixing any of them? Also, is Google
going to stand up and say "we fucked up, it wasn't the devs fault, but
now everything's back to normal, sorry for the inconvenience"

So far, it appears that you are HIDING, and I can't stress enough how
much I hope that's not true, and that the reason for the silence is
that you're actually extremely busy busting your @$$3$ working on
fixes.

Thanks

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Att: Android engineers

by Stoyan Damov » Tue, 10 Mar 2009 21:50:47 GMT


 I forgot to put the [1] footnote:

[1] Are you actually carrying these 325 characters on your backs or
something? Because we CAN'T POSSIBLY UNDERSTAND this RIDICULOUS
limitation. At least, extend it with say 100 characters as a courtesy
to the developers who have to use the description to apologize for you
bugs.





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Sponsored Links


Att: Android engineers

by Jean-Baptiste Queru » Tue, 10 Mar 2009 21:56:38 GMT


 In cases of hanging "downloads", do you know whether the users are
seeing an actual download icon in the notification bar (it looks like
an arrow pointing down)?

Longer explanation: There are two phases in a "download", one where
the Market uses its own protocols to retrieve the download URI, and
one where the Market instructs my code, the Android Download Manager,
to get the actual bits using the Android HTTP stack. My code displays
the download icon, and whether that icon is present or not is a good
hint to know whether the problem is with Market retrieving the
download URI or whether it's in my code failing to download the data
(which could also technically be an issue with the underlying network
stack, though that should be rare).

JBQ






-- 
Jean-Baptiste M. "JBQ" Queru
Android Engineer, Google.

Questions sent directly to me that have no reason for being private
will likely get ignored or forwarded to a public forum with no further
warning.

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Att: Android engineers

by Stoyan Damov » Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:12:05 GMT


 i JBQ,

Take a look at [1] and [2].

[1]
http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Android+Market/thread?tid=40dc07e3a35208c1&hl=en
[2]
http://www.google.com/support/androidmarket/bin/search.py?hl=en&forum=1&query=download+issue+more:forum

So it appears there *are* men at Google!

Thanks

On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 3:56 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru <j...@android.com> wrote:

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Att: Android engineers

by Sundog » Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:23:06 GMT


 The problem is simple. It appears that Google has allocated no or next
to no resources for developer support and the idea of some sort of
developer liason hasn't occurred to them at all, leaving it all to the
development team, which must be irritating as hell to them.



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Att: Android engineers

by Jean-Baptiste Queru » Tue, 10 Mar 2009 23:14:19 GMT


 nfortunately I didn't seem to find anything in there that would hint
at which phase of the download (and therefore whose code) would cause
problems.

It'd also be interesting to know whether other downloads that go
through the download manager succeed while market downloads fail or
hang (e.g. long-pressing an image in the browser and saving it to the
SD card).

Any reproduction case that can send a log (i.e. output of adb
bugreport) when such issues happen would be very helpful to try to
diagnose things.

JBQ

On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 7:11 AM, Stoyan Damov <stoyan.da...@gmail.com> wrote:



--
Jean-Baptiste M. "JBQ" Queru
Android Engineer, Google.

Questions sent directly to me that have no reason for being private
will likely get ignored or forwarded to a public forum with no further
warning.

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~



Att: Android engineers

by Stoyan Damov » Tue, 10 Mar 2009 23:27:05 GMT


 ike I said, reproducing the bugs is hard, but these do occur and do
occur on a regular basis, as you probably saw on the forum.
We can't ask users to install adb and send us logs, wait, we don't
know who these users are thanks to Market (for the free apps at
least), they wouldn't send us e-mail but will instead put a 1 *
rating.

BTW, you've probably seen a question on the forum for the biggest
Market WTF in history - users being able to rate apps BEFORE they even
download and have a chance to run and see them. Isn't this EASY enough
to reproduce and send to the appropriate developer? Ditto for the
inability to install a downloaded app (the hanging install).

I understand you are responsible only for the download manager (wrt
this particular bug) but you can help us and give a chance to
Android's future by digging into your colleague's bugs as well.

Cheers

On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru <j...@android.com> wrote:

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Att: Android engineers

by Sundog » Tue, 10 Mar 2009 23:30:20 GMT


 nd to add insult to injury, the "View" item has disappeared from my
Marketplace menu AGAIN.

I would be fired from my day job - QUICK - if my applications had such
problems.

On Mar 10, 9:26am, Stoyan Damov <stoyan.da...@gmail.com> wrote:
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Att: Android engineers

by Mark Murphy » Tue, 10 Mar 2009 23:37:43 GMT


 


Please refer to:

 http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=2159 

If you wish to be kept notified about progress on this issue, star it.
If you have additional details beyond what is in there, add it. If this
is not the same issue, start a new one, as it does not appear that the
issue is in the issue tracker at present.


Please refer to:

 http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=2074 
 http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1996 

If you wish to be kept notified about progress on one of these issues,
star it. If you have additional details beyond what is in there, add it.
If none of these are the same issue, start a new one, as it does not
appear that the issue is in the issue tracker at present.

-- 
Mark Murphy (a Commons Guy)
 http://commonsware.com 
_The Busy Coder's Guide to Android Development_ Version 2.0 Published!

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Att: Android engineers

by Jean-Baptiste Queru » Tue, 10 Mar 2009 23:46:48 GMT


 ust as an aside, I believe that the bug that would allow a user to
rate an app too early was fixed in the source code and that the fix
will be in a future release. I'll have to double-check that, though.

Yup, one of the challenges here is that the bugs in market downloads
are hard to reproduce, and only seem to appear "in the field". Another
challenge is indeed that asking regular users to produce full bug
reports through adb is hard. That's why we ask whether Google Talk
works or whether downloads start when Google Talk gets turned on,
that's why I ask whether the download icon is visible, or whether
other downloads succeed: those are user-visible and they provide good
hints about which part of the system is misbehaving in a way that
causes Market downloads to fail.

JBQ

On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 8:26 AM, Stoyan Damov <stoyan.da...@gmail.com> wrote:



--
Jean-Baptiste M. "JBQ" Queru
Android Engineer, Google.

Questions sent directly to me that have no reason for being private
will likely get ignored or forwarded to a public forum with no further
warning.

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~



Att: Android engineers

by Justin (Google Employee) » Thu, 12 Mar 2009 01:27:50 GMT


 We're aware that there are issues with the Market purchase, download,
and rating experience for users and developers. We're working on
resolving them. I'd also like everyone to keep in mind that the
interests of developers and the interests of Google are completely
aligned here. Google has no interest in producing a poor Market
experience for users or developers, it doesn't further our goal of
creating a healthy platform.

Regards,
Justin
Android Team @ Google



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Att: Android engineers

by Stoyan Damov » Thu, 12 Mar 2009 01:29:19 GMT


 Thank you!

Any ballpark guestimate?

On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Justin (Google Employee)




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Att: Android engineers

by Incognito » Thu, 12 Mar 2009 03:29:55 GMT


 Thanks for the assurance. I really hope android becomes the cash cow we all 
want it to be. 





We're aware that there are issues with the Market purchase, download,
and rating experience for users and developers. We're working on
resolving them. I'd also like everyone to keep in mind that the
interests of developers and the interests of Google are completely
aligned here. Google has no interest in producing a poor Market
experience for users or developers, it doesn't further our goal of
creating a healthy platform.

Regards,
Justin
Android Team @ Google



Hi Android engineers,

It's been weeks since we, developers, and many users, started ranting
about the bugs in the Android Market application, namely:

1. Hanging downloads
2. Hanging installs
3. The DREADED "Force Close" after an application update.

Many of us have received low ratings (especially 1 star ratings)
because of the aforementioned issues.
I took the time to review more than 100 applications, all in different
categories, and most of them sacrificed some of the RIDICULOUS 325
characters[1] description in explaining to users that 1, 2, and 3 are
actually not their fault but yours (Google's), and setting up websites
for alternative downloads.

All of the problems above are intermittent and are thus hard to
reproduce and we understand that.
What we don't understand is how much more will we have to listen to
the sound of silence.
Is there an Android engineer, man enough (or woman enough) to stand up
and say *anything* about these issues, whether they are acknowledged,
or being reviewed, or someone is working on them, or whether and when
there's a planned deadline on fixing any of them? Also, is Google
going to stand up and say "we fucked up, it wasn't the devs fault, but
now everything's back to normal, sorry for the inconvenience"

So far, it appears that you are HIDING, and I can't stress enough how
much I hope that's not true, and that the reason for the silence is
that you're actually extremely busy busting your @$$3$ working on
fixes.

Thanks




      


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